STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
President Trump's tariff agenda is under some threat. Six House Republicans bucked party leaders and joined Democrats to vote against tariffs that the United States imposes on goods Americans import from Canada. That was enough for the measure to pass. It was a rare case where just enough Republicans voted independently of the president. In a few minutes, we're going to hear from one of them, Kevin Kiley of California. We begin with the details.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez is here. Franco, this revolt from some Republicans - it kind of feels like a big deal.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Yeah. I mean, it really was kind of a stark message to President Trump from those Republicans who joined Democrats on a vote that would essentially reverse the president's tariffs on Canada, you know, especially as we're heading into the midterm campaign season. I mean, Republicans are facing pressure from constituents about high costs and the business community, which is, you know, somewhat afraid to invest with all the uncertainty. And like Steve said, it's just another example of how Republicans are starting to stand up to the president. I mean, Trump, though, is really pushing back, sending a strong message that he'll support primaries against any Republican who votes against his tariffs.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. OK. So let's get into the tariffs, because Trump always talks about how they're critical to the economy - that they bring in billions of dollars into the government. How much water does that hold?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, it is true that it makes a lot of money. In fact, it may be trillions. According to a new Congressional Budget Office report, tariffs are actually expected to help reduce the deficit by over $3 trillion over a decade. But another part of the report points out that it's not foreign companies paying that money. Brendan Duke served at the National Economic Council in the Biden White House. He told me that the CBO report shows companies are passing off 90% of those costs to consumers.
BRENDAN DUKE: Which flies directly in the face of the justifications that Trump - and his entire administration - has given for these sweeping taxes. So the CBO report shows that this is a sweeping tax on Americans going shopping at Walmart and Costco.
MARTÍNEZ: You know, Franco, we've often seen the president use tariffs as a weapon on friends and foes alike to get the things that he wants. So how might this shape the United States' global image as a financial or economic partner?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. I mean, it's really hard to say, but I do think diplomats and foreign leaders are hoping some tariffs are lifted. I spoke to Michael O'Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. He sees deeper symbolism here that goes well beyond Trump and whether the U.S. can be a reliable partner again. And he said that even if all the tariffs are not lifted, some pushback would be seen as a positive sign.
MICHAEL O'HANLON: As long as we're trying to push back against this notion that United States plays by different rules than everyone else or that it uses this kind of weapon capriciously in pursuit of a personalized policy agenda, I think that's much better than the perception that America will continue to act this way indefinitely.
ORDOÑEZ: Now, Trump has said, quote, "we're screwed" if the courts strike down tariffs because the U.S. might be on the hook to pay back billions of dollars in revenue collected from tariffs.
MARTÍNEZ: So are we possibly talking about the end of tariffs? I mean, didn't the White House say they did have contingency plans?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah. Trump is wedded to them too much, and he's signaled he'll find a way even under an unfavorable ruling by the court. You know, there are different kinds of tariffs that don't fall under what the Supreme Court is deciding. But it does demonstrate some guardrails that Trump is unable to do things at will. And actually, A, it might open him up to more political pressure as Republicans are more willing to break rank ahead of the midterms.
MARTÍNEZ: That's White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez. Thanks a lot.
ORDOÑEZ: Thanks, A. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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