LEILA FADEL, HOST:
President Trump's effort to lay off federal workers has been put on hold for now.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
A federal judge at least temporarily halted the administration's attempts to slash the federal workforce during the shutdown.
FADEL: NPR's Andrea Hsu joins us to explain. Good morning, Andrea.
ANDREA HSU, BYLINE: Good morning.
FADEL: OK. So in recent days, President Trump indicated that the layoffs were just getting going. What happened now?
HSU: Yeah. Well, the judge overseeing this case, U.S. District Judge Susan Illston - right off the bat, she made pretty clear she believes these layoffs are probably illegal. So the plaintiffs in this case, Leila, are two labor unions representing federal workers. And the judge said they were likely to prove that the administration is overstepping its authority, that what's happening with these layoffs is, quote, "arbitrary and capricious." So she granted the unions a temporary restraining order, halting, you know, the 4,000-some layoffs that are already underway and stopping agencies from sending out more layoff notices. And this applies to 30-some government agencies where the unions have members.
FADEL: OK. So you mentioned the unions brought this lawsuit. What are they arguing?
HSU: They say the Trump administration is illegally using the shutdown to engage in what they call politically driven RIFs, or reductions in force. And, you know, in their briefs and in court, the unions brought up the harm that federal workers are already suffering as a result. You know, they say it's been a tumultuous year for federal workers. And now thousands are getting laid off during a shutdown, which means the HR staff they'd need to go to for paperwork, for information about how to continue their health care - those people are furloughed. The union's attorney said there are employees who are pregnant who are worried they won't have health insurance when their babies arrive. And the court also heard that some employees didn't get layoff notices sent to them because they were told not to check their work email during the shutdown. And still others were locked out of their email because their passwords have expired, and the IT staff who could help them are also furloughed.
FADEL: Wow.
HSU: Judge Illston said it's clear the administration is doing things without fully thinking them through.
FADEL: President Trump has spoken very openly about using the shutdown to get rid of what he calls, quote, "Democrat programs." How did the government press its case in court?
HSU: Well, the government's attorney, Elizabeth Hedges, tried to convince the judge that she shouldn't even be hearing the case at all, and that cases involving personnel issues in the government have to be heard by a particular agency that handles such matters. And, Leila, that agency is also shut down right now. Hedges also said most government agencies have not come to final decisions about whether to lay off staff or how many to lay off, so it would be inappropriate for the court to issue a blanket pause. But Judge Illston kept pressing Hedges to explain why the government believes the shutdowns are legal, and Hedges repeatedly said she was not prepared to give the government's position on the merits. You know, Illston seemed pretty frustrated by this. She said, the hatchet is falling on the heads of employees all across the nation, and you're not prepared to address whether that's legal?
FADEL: OK, but the judge issued only a temporary pause on the layoffs. So how long does that last?
HSU: Well, typically two weeks. There will be another hearing on October 28, when the judge will consider indefinitely pausing the layoffs. Now, temporary restraining orders are meant to be stopgap measures. They're not generally appealable. But that hasn't stopped the Trump administration in the past, including in another case presided over by the same judge. So we can expect the administration to fight this pause all the way to the Supreme Court if it has to. Already, the Supreme Court has signaled a willingness to side with the government in cases about the fate of federal employees.
FADEL: NPR's Andrea Hsu. Thank you, Andrea.
HSU: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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