A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
We want to get a sense of how the community around Los Angeles is feeling about the decision to mobilize the military against civilians. Gustavo Arellano is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times. Gustavo, you wrote about a protest that you were at in Santa Ana in Orange County, about 30 miles south of downtown LA. What are you hearing from people protesting these ICE raids?
GUSTAVO ARELLANO: People are absolutely furious. Though, a protest, specifically in Santa Ana, it happened on 4th Street, which is a historical Latino corridor of the city. The National Guard is now set up there. And I was talking to people who had - this was the first time they had ever protested. They had even told me that, I don't have a problem with Trump deporting violent criminals, but what's happening right now is not that. So just - and then to put in the National Guard and the Marines, people feel like Trump doesn't see them as Americans, that he sees us as prisoners, basically.
MARTÍNEZ: So speaking of seeming American, the flags at these protests in LA, and now in Orange County, have gotten a lot of attention. Protesters are carrying flags from Mexico, from El Salvador, also carrying American flags, too. But what is the significance of the flags not being stars and stripes?
ARELLANO: Oh, people get - some people get so infuriated. They view it as, like, oh, my gosh, these people are seditious. You've had everyone from Stephen Miller to JD Vance accuse the people who are carrying these flags of being foreign marauders. And that is just not the case. This shows me that these people are not speaking to young folks who will say, well, you don't consider me an American. I'm going to wrap myself in something that at least I have comfort in knowing I'm proud of, that this is the culture of my parents. And by the way, I am still American, but you wouldn't know, because you don't want to talk to me because you see me as subhuman.
MARTÍNEZ: Which is odd, though, because, Gustavo, around the country, people take pride in their nationalities all over the place, right? People in - on the East Coast wave Italian flags or wave flags from France or Greece or wherever they're from in Europe.
ARELLANO: Oh, yeah. And not only that, those same people who are criticizing the American flag - people like JD Vance and Stephen Miller - you're never going to hear them criticize anyone who waves a Confederate flag, even though last I checked Mexico, Guatemala and all that, they're allies of the United States. The Confederacy was not an ally of the United States.
MARTÍNEZ: What do you think, though, of the argument - you mentioned JD Vance. He said those people waving Mexican flags are foreign nationals with no legal right to be in the country. Does the argument that not waving an American flag at these protests makes the protest inherently un-American? Does that argument hold any water?
ARELLANO: The - no. This is an argument that has been happening in the Latino community in Southern California now for 30 years, ever since the days of Prop 187, which happened in 1994, an anti-immigrant initiative that kicked off this whole mess, frankly, that you have here. And last I checked, those people ended up becoming - a lot of them ended up becoming politically liberal. They ended up - this is why California is blue as it is. And all the people that I have ever seen, last I checked, they have mortgages, and their kids are named Brian.
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter) That's true. A lot of them are like that. Does it get difficult, though, sometimes, to figure out who's actually protesting and who's just being destructive, though? Does the message ever get clouded or lost when we can't figure that out?
ARELLANO: Of course. Well, it's so easy to figure out. You know who's disrupting? The people who are doing foolish things like throwing e-scooters at CHP vehicles. At the protests that I've been to my colleagues, 99.99% of the people protesting are perfectly safe. But also, to just accuse Antifa or anarchists are doing it - that's not the case at all. And at the protests that I saw, I saw young people. We're talking about teenagers hurling rocks and water bottles at the police. People are just caught up in the moment. I'm not excusing it. That's, frankly, where I think it's adults who need to find these people, channel their energy into more productive ways.
MARTÍNEZ: When I think about LA's protest history, I think back to the '40s, the Zoot Suit Riots, '65, Watts, east LA student walkouts in the late '60s, even through Rodney King and George Floyd and what we're seeing today. What is it, do you think, Gustavo, about this city, about Los Angeles, that I always have thought of as being the protest capital of the world?
ARELLANO: Oh, yeah. And you forgot to mention all the sports celebrations. What has - what happened on Friday and Saturday in Los Angeles, it didn't amount to what happens after the Dodgers lose a World Series championship. There's something in Los Angeles. Like, every decade or so, it turns on itself. And whether you like it or not, that is just what the culture of the city is. I mean, this is a hard place to live in. People finally have enough.
Right now, frankly, what you see, you didn't - and people are upset at the idea that Los Angeles cannot govern itself, and the National Guard was not needed. On Sunday evening, yeah, that got a little bit crazy. So that, sadly, justified Trump bringing it in. But the Marines, not even close being necessary right now.
MARTÍNEZ: So speaking of the Marines, Pete Hegseth told Congress that troops will be in Los Angeles for 60 days - 60 days, Gustavo. If that turns out to be the case, what do you think will be left in LA after that?
ARELLANO: Oh, LA's going to remain standing. LA's going to remain proud. LA is also going to push back.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. That's Gustavo Arellano, columnist for the Los Angeles Times. His recent column is titled "Trump Wants LA To Set Itself On Fire. Let's Rebel Smarter." Gustavo, thanks a lot for joining us.
ARELLANO: Gracias.
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